EP 082: Abattoirs of Love | Daniel Haqiqatjou


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SIM talks to Daniel Haqiqatjou about the Nouman Ali Khan scandal.


Daniel Haqiqatjou was born in Houston, Texas. He attended Harvard University where he majored in Physics and minored in Philosophy. He completed a Masters degree in Philosophy at Tufts University. Haqiqatjou also studies traditional Islamic sciences part-time. He writes and lectures on contemporary issues surrounding Muslims and Modernity and is also a contributor to Muslim Matters and the Muslim Debate Initiative.


Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/haqiqatjou/

Twitter: @haqiqatjou


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12 comments on EP 082: Abattoirs of Love | Daniel Haqiqatjou

  1. Monique says:

    Let me pose a question to discuss, if anyone actually reads the comments and wants to respond……

    In the past Nouman Ali Khan has discussed some hadith which was found to be false. It was in reference to women praying in the masjid versus praying in the home. He made a mistake, he admitted that.

    Lately, I have seen many people within the community bringing this up and stating that it is proof he is not trustworthy. I have seen people using the term predator while discussing this hadith issue. A lot of reverts are jumping on this topic, Nouman Ali Khan is well known to all reverts as he was a go-to video source for many of us in our beginning months.

    Logically speaking, the issue of a fabricated hadith is nowhere near the allegations of improper interactions with women or abuse of power. Two very different issues. That being said, when it rains it pours and right now it is a storm so all issues will be brought up.

    Do you think past issues like this will keep coming up AND do you think it has any relevance ?

  2. Ash says:

    Some very good points, by Brother Daniel. I also read his article on the case of Sh.Abdullah Saleem, he raised some interesting points concerning some of the issues in that case.
    From what I can recall this chap Omer M Muzaffar, was involved in that case also. In any case I dont know whats happening with you guys in America with this Happy clappy ” New American Islam”. Any guy who claims to be “Islamic Chaplain” and also a “Movie Critic” working with Hollywood would not be taken seriously by the muslim community here in the U.K. let alone as a mediator. On the flipside any scholar who speaks at these free mixed gatherings where the bounds and codes of modesty are violated would be called into question. From what I can tell this is becoming the norm, in America.

    1. Nader says:

      Just a clarification brother. Film critics in the U.S. do not work for or with Hollywood.

    2. Monique says:

      With all due respect, this happy clappy reformist Islam is not unique to America. To throw blame on the west is a crutch.

      I do agree with you that codes of modesty are a concern, however, I would wonder what solutions you offer up to help with this issue? (which again is not unique to America) I personally am an advocate for education, often it seems to me that they lack good education and understanding about their deen.

      The seeking of knowledge is obligatory for every Muslim.” – Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 74

      If a scholar is not supposed to speak at these gatherings, then how do we provide education for our brothers and sisters?

      1. Ash says:

        I accept it is no longer unique to America, but the Muslims in America glamourised it in the lat 1980’s . And have exported their happy clappy Islam to the rest of the world over the last 25 years. Maybe if speakers acted in accordance with guidelines, set by the Ulemah for centuries there would not be an issue. Which is when preaching to the opposite gender do so from behind a screen. Where they cannot see you and you cannot see them.

        When corresponding via email or letters avoid direct contact, use a female intermediary in your own family, your wife or sister, who reads all mail from opposite gender and corresponds on your behalf.

        When speaking over the phone ensure her mahram is present on the otherside of the phone is aware of the communication and a female mahram is present on your side. To ensure everything is above aboard. Preaching in the above manner has been done for centuries and still is today, were strict codes of modesty and lowering the gaze are maintained.

        If you engage in this Happy Clappy New American Islam, big conferences in huge arenas with mixed audience, and if you hold-classes with mixed audience of male and female students with all students and Teachers going for day trips in the countryside, or going for burger and fries to the local fast food joint your opening door to fitnah.
        I heard a former Christian methodist preacher Areeb Islam from South Africa…..He stated as a Christian when he used to preach in front of an audience when looking at the females in the gathering , he used to get lustful thoughts and felt a hypocrite….One of the things that attracted him to Islam was the segregation of the genders.

        1. Monique says:

          I appreciate and respect those that abide by such levels of modesty and are always mindful of free-mixing.

          In mentioning this exportation of a liberalized and reformed Islam , we know that we cannot edit the words and commands of Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) we cannot make it fit our personal desires and preferences. Even in times this is difficult for us, such struggles are rewarding and have a purpose even if we can’t see it.

          “Do the people think that they will be left to say, “We believe” and they will not be tried” 29:2

          This is where we see bidah etc. I can understand a believer that says “I am not ready to do X and Y” , but I will try . What is more troubling to me is a believer that is openly engaging in something haram and they make excuses for it and try to deny what we know to be true. A common example of this seen amongst reformists is saying hijab is a choice. Well, technically it is a choice, a choice to obey or to sin because it is obligatory.

          I do have to wonder something though. I am a revert, Alhamdulillah, this means I was raised by a western family with western customs. Does this mean I am a part of the “happy clappy” reformists, certainly not! If I, a born westerner who was once rather liberal can walk away from a lot of my culture and struggle to change my life to please Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala), then why is it some Muslims raised within the deen cannot resist the pull of a liberalized and watered-down Islam? I am not passing any judgment when I say this, please no one get offended. I am legitimately asking because we are all responsible for our own sin no matter what influences are in front of us. Just want to understand this through the eyes of born Muslims, my perspective/experience is different.

          Appreciate the thorough response. May Allah (subhanahu wa ta’ala) grant you knowledge and accept from you all of your good deeds. ameen.

          1. Ash says:

            Its a good question! the reasons vary from indvidual to individual here are a few.
            (1) Many of us are born into Muslim familys but have limited Knowledge of Islam itself. That is cultural muslims. Although we come from a Muslim background most of us do not discover or understand Islam until we
            much are older, or we simply drift away from the deen.
            (2) An inferiority complex born out of the relentless Anti-Islam propaganda from the Media the propaganda is not just in the west but by Media within the Muslim countries themselves, So individuals try to water down their Islam so as not be seen as extremist or backward.
            (3) Desire to fit in, with the society around them.
            (4) Wanting to appear sophisticated, You find that in many Muslim countries, amongst the middle-classes , Western culture is seen by them as the height of sophistication so they try to emulate it.
            (5) The You only Live once mindset, people
            especially the young, feeling if they are religious they will be deprived of having fun, So they go full out to live a wild lifestyle.

            Anas bin Malik (radi Allahu anhu) narrated that the Messenger of Allah (sal Allahu alaihi wa sallam) said: “There shall come upon the people a time in which the one who is steadfast upon his religion will be like the one holding onto a burning ember.” (Hasan) [Chapters on Al-Fitan: Jami At-Tirmidhi]

            This hadith informs us that the Muslim Ummah shall pass through periods when wickedness, lewdness and sinfulness will hold sway in society, and the believers shall find it extremely difficult to preserve their faith, and swim against the surging tide of worldly benefits and gains. Holding onto one’s faith under these conditions will in fact be like holding on to a live coal in the palm of one’s hand, which will be a highly challenging and trying task.
            Source Daily Hadith.com.

  3. Pristine says:

    I liked how the interviewee raised all the right questions and gave the right answers. It didn’t dawn on me until I heard this lecture that anyone can’t just be social robin hoods. These subjects have to be handled by proper authorities and most importantly, the very fact that we’re forgetting: innocent until proven guilty. The accused one’s rights need to be considered too, not just the one claiming to be victims. Most rational and well arranged thoughts/arguments I have heard since last week. Thanks for the podcast. May Allah guide us to the right track and give us the ability to judge between right and wrong.

  4. Nader says:

    Salam MM’s,
    Love you all, I just want to give some constructive feedback, I appreciate the intention behind this episode but besides some talk of consent and power/authority their wasn’t really much discussed. It was mostly just skepticism about the case from Haqiqatjou. That’s fine, nobody outside of the mediation process needs to come to any conclusion. But for the rest of us there are many theoretical questions that could have been explored.
    My suggestion for part 2 is to not focus on trying to come to conclusions about this case in particular, since that is a dead end, but rather to explore questions raised from it. Some possible topics to explore:
    1.)”celebrity sheikhs,” and their absurdly die hard fans, who take things personal.
    2.) not exposing sins vs. sweeping things under the rug (and enabling sins)
    3.) How to define “predatory” behavior, what precautions we should take?
    4.) What would it mean to “forbid evil” if we can’t talk about it? (slander, gheebah, and public figures)
    5.) Abuse and harm in Muslims communities, what should be done?
    6.) Holding leaders to certain standards vs accepting their humanity vs. witch-hunts.
    7.) Should someone lose their job or position for something like this?
    8.) When, if ever, should something become public? Why?
    9.) Is public exposure or humiliation ever justified? What if it is for negotiation purposes?

    I offer these suggestions since there is alot of negativity about the case and emotional reactions. (and really bad displays of character.) But the greater point is what positive lessons can we derive from this scenario. These are a few things I have been thinking about.

  5. Maria says:

    Thank you for this talk. I am still co fused bc shaykh Navaid Aziz also made a statement as well. Not just omer muzaffar.

  6. Aziz says:

    interview was a little disappointing. You need to push the interviewer a little more. The question was not would you allow your kid to go to his lecture it would be would you have your wife go work in his office. Seriously stop trying to be liked go push the people on your podcast to answer tough questions. Daniel obviously is pro nouman, but does not address the situation where the scholar IS behaving poorly. He just assumes a liberal agenda to attack the scholar because of his own conservative bias. Of course there is no evidence for such a situation because no Muslim woman wants her name dragged through the blogs by bringing evidence in the public domain. Power is always abused, Daniel is happy to criticize power when it’s attacking Islam, but not willing to criticize the possibility that power is being abused within Muslim scholarly institutions. It happens bc power corrupts and he did not care to address that rather he spent whole time talking up the vast left wing conspiracy. Yes liberalism sucks but powerful people can also sometimes be corrupt.

  7. Sk says:

    Guest states that if serious abuse occurs, then the abuser should be approached and questioned, and action should occur. I’m sorry, but Isn’t this exactly what occurred in the nouman situation? What does it mean when he says , “I don’t know the allegations.” Just because HE doesn’t know, doesn’t mean it’s not true? Nouman was approached by 4 scholars (with Omar m being the mediator)? Till now and In His own post, nouman did not deny the allegations and instead framed them as mutual consent. He didn’t even deny the whatsapp messages. It seems the only conflict is that the scholars asked him to step away from preaching due to his actions for a longer period of time, when he felt like a couple months were more than enough. The guest does not address any of this and is seeing the situation only from the outside, like the rest of us. Seems like he’s salty he didn’t get asked to participate. Not sure why you didn’t call him out on this as in the actual episode with omer mozaffer you all claimed that you were aware of the nouman situation before mozaffer’s fb post? Seems like he has a personal vendetta against omer m and other so called “liberal ” Muslims. I’m sorry, if a man is portraying himself as someone who is looking for a wife but is courting many women at once, and these women find out about each other, he has it coming. He is the problem, not the “liberals.” In what way is that acceptable for any Muslim man, let alone one that claims he is a teacher? If you want to speed date, then don’t be a preacher. Simple. Totally did not believe his claim that he’d let his kids attend nouman lecture. As mentioned by another poster, would he let his wife attend private lectures with nak?, I believe the biggest issue in the nak case was that the other scholars backed out on omer m. If they presented a united front at the beginning and explained themselves clearly then it would’ve been more ideal. Lastly, him stating that the community is being “framed” to see bad things after being conditioned (ex. Shaykhs in the dm) is absolutely ridiculous. If there wasn’t truth to the matter, no one would create such songs. Maybe it’s time anyone who claims to be a preacher or scholar should walk the talk. If the can’t, please don’t become a preacher, find another calling.

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